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And then he doubled down on that
- just before the election took place. - (phones ringing)
And then talked about it again last week.
Really extraordinary the circumstances.
Remember Hillary Clinton, Secretary Clinton,
just recently came out and said the Jim Comey letters
and what he said was one of the reasons
she lost the election.
Now we're saying that he's been fired
for basically those decisions.
I want to read a letter
from President Trump, uh, released just moments ago.
"Dear Director Comey, I have received
"the attached letters from the Attorney General
"and the Deputy Attorney General of the United States
"recommending your dismissal as the Director
"of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
"I have accepted their recommendation
"and you are hereby terminated and removed
"from office, effective immediately.
"While I greatly appreciate you informing me,
"on three separate occasions,
"that I am not under investigation,
"I nevertheless concur with the judgment
"of the Department of Justice
"that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau.
"It is essential that we find new leadership
for the FBI that restores--"
(tense music playing)
♪ ♪
(tapping on window)
♪ ♪
- (phone beeps) - (window whirring)
This is my partner Wa-- partner, Wally Taylor.
Hey. How are you?
(tape rewinding)
- Man: Hi. - (Reality chuckles)
Reality Winner: Hey.
Wally Taylor: How are you?
Reality: Uh...
Good. H-how are you doing?
Good.
How's your day today?
Uh, it's pretty good. Just got some groceries.
Alright.
Let's show you who we are.
(keyboard clacking)
Okay. Well, the reason we're here today
is that we have a search warrant for your house.
- Okay. - Justin Garrick: Alright.
Uh, do you know what this might be about?
I have no idea. (laughs)
Okay. (chuckles)
This is about, uh, possible mishandling
of classified information.
Oh, my goodness. Okay.
Garrick: Mm-hmm.
- So what we've got is, uh, again, g-got a warrant. - (phone buzzing)
And, uh,
I'm happy to show it to you.
What I'd like to do is sit down,
talk you with, uh, talk with you about it.
Kind of go over what, what's going on.
Uh, kind of get your, your side of it.
And, of course, you're completely voluntary
to talk to me.
Uh, we can talk here
or, uh, our office is about five minutes away,
uh, if you want to, if you'd rather talk there.
Then we can do either one.
It makes no difference to me.
- Okay. - Taylor: Do you have any pets?
- I do. I have two pets. - 'Cause you-you've been gone a while.
So do, do we maybe need to let 'em out,
use the bathroom, stuff like that?
I, uh, I-I do.
Um, would you mind
if I at least get some perishables into the fridge?
Taylor: And we can do that, too.
But what we're gonna have to do is, uh...
(brakes squeal)
Do you live by yourself?
Yes.
Taylor: Okay. What we're gonna have to do is
we're gonna have to go into the house first,
make sure it's, it's safe.
We have a search warrant, so we-we're, uh,
we're going to.
- Absolutely. - Taylor: Okay.
And what we'll do is
we'll keep you out here until we do that
and once we secure it, we'll, uh...
then we can kind of go from there, okay?
Of course.
(dog barking)
So is your dog friendly?
(chuckles) Okay, well, uh, so...
she doesn't... like men.
- Okay. - So... (laughs)
- So that's a problem. - Yeah.
- Um, she may come towards you, but... - Okay.
She's never bitten anybody. She's not aggressive.
She's just got, you know, a really good growl going.
- Okay. - She'll probably hide under my desk.
Do you have a, a leash or--
- I have a leash. - Okay.
I can, I can get her leashed up.
So what we might want to do is maybe let you go in there with her.
You're not to touch anything else.
You're not to do anything else but get the dog
and bring it out here.
- We cool? We... - Of course. I understand.
Because otherwise, if, if we have a problem,
we're not gonna do that.
I can move her straight to the backyard.
- Taylor: Okay. - Okay.
Taylor: Uh, house key?
House key.
We also have a warrant to search the car too.
Do you have a cell phone?
We'll take that, and we'll, uh, kind of go from there, okay?
Uh, but like he said, we're completely voluntary,
completely up to you on...
But, you know, I think maybe it'd be worth your time...
- No, definitely. - ...to listen, at least for a little bit.
- Um, definitely here... - Okay?
And we can kind of figure out
what's, what's going on.
- ...to, uh, comply. - Okay.
Her leash is two feet inside the door
where I left it this morning.
I can move her straight to the backyard.
Are there any weapons in the car? In the house?
- In the house, yes. - What do you have?
I have an AR-15.
Is it pink?
- It's pink. - Okay.
(chuckles) How'd you know?
Uh, I have a Glock Nine under the bed
- and a, uh, a 15-gauge. - Taylor: Okay.
You sound like my house.
Okay, we're good, then.
Garrick: Alright. Just don't make any,
any movements for those and then we're...
- Yeah. - Taylor: Yeah.
I mean, we're all cool.
- Yeah. - Garrick: Yeah.
I mean, kind of obvious.
- Yeah. - Taylor: You can put, put...
There's a little fenced-in area where you can put her?
Uh, yes, yes.
And you won't even take your eyes off me.
Taylor: And we'll get water and stuff like that.
And this other guy, uh, is with us as well.
And we'll probably have a few more people
showing up here directly.
(keyboard clacking)
- (Garrick chuckles) - Taylor: Is that the only pet?
Reality: There is a cat.
She will go straight under the bed.
- (dog barks) - Taylor: Okay.
Jen doesn't like men.
Starting to see a trend here.
Man: Yeah. Y'all can come on out. We found her.
What's her name?
Uh, Mickey.
Hey, Mickey.
Hey there.
(dog barks)
She doesn't know what's going on, though.
(dog barking)
(gate clanking)
Reality: There you go.
(dog panting)
You don't have any weapons or anything on you, do you?
- No. - None in the car?
Um, in the car? No.
- (door rattling) - Hey.
Hang on. Hang on, hang on just--
Can I close the door for my cat?
Alright.
'Cause that-that's all I care about right now.
Okay, uh, so the only thing in there now that's alive
is the cat?
- Reality: Yes. - There's not a person?
No person.
They're on their way?
Yeah, they're pulling up.
(car doors closing)
Taylor: Why don't we, uh...
Do you want to wait out here with her for a minute?
And Joe and I will walk through.
Again, just to explain, we have a search warrant.
It's...
- I-I understand. - Taylor: It's en route. So...
(inaudible chatter)
(tense music playing)
(objects clattering)
It's alright.
They're just making sure, uh, just checking to make sure
there's nobody else in there
or nothing... surprise! (chuckles)
Surprise us or anything like that.
- Yup. - So...
I'm gonna make this
as easy as possible for you guys.
Okay. Likewise.
So hopefully explain things,
get to, uh, figure this all out
and, uh, wrap it up.
(dog barking)
How, uh, (clears throat)
how, how old is she?
We don't know. She's one of those.
Oh yeah. Yeah. My, uh,
(clears throat) one of my dogs is a rescue.
And when I got him, he wouldn't, uh...
I was the only guy who could touch him.
Huh?
Anybody else came in the house,
especially male, he'd pee all over the place.
But I could touch him, and it was fine.
(Reality chuckles)
So whoever had him before was a real, uh,
phew, real piece of work.
Yeah. She was left in a kennel and neglected her whole life.
Taylor: Why don't we, uh...
Let's get the groceries, throw 'em in the fridge real quick,
then we'll bring you back out here, okay?
(clattering)
(indistinct chatter)
(objects thudding)
(paper crinkling)
Joe: Is that...
Garrick: Uh, no, that's it for the perishables.
Should be.
(car door closes)
(clears throat) The neighbors.
(Taylor clears throat)
Alright. If you could just, uh, step over.
Just here.
Yeah. Just stop right there.
Look up here.
(camera shutter clicks)
Joe: Just...
There's a cat in the house, in the bed,
- or it's on the bed. - On the bed?
- Or was on the bed. - It's...
It-it'll probably go under the bed at some point.
Garrick: The dog is in the backyard in the fence.
Does...
does she need water?
She'll be fine.
She's been inside all day with her water.
Garrick: Okay.
- (door closes) - Alrighty.
Alright.
So would you like to talk here
or talk, uh,
talk at the office?
Uh, we can go ahead and talk here.
Do you want to talk here?
- Sure. - Okay.
Uh, let's, uh...
I'm trying to think if we have any
private place, uh, there in the house that--
D-do you have anything there in the house
that we can kind of sit that's away...
Away?
There's one bedroom that's empty.
I don't...
I-I don't, I don't really like to go in there...
other than...
I guess I don't really have anything else other than that,
that back room.
That back room?
Okay. And it's, uh, it's completely empty?
Yeah. You'll go in there.
There's, uh,
there's one dog kennel cage.
Other than that, I don't use it.
Garrick: Okay. Alright. Um,
y-y-you said you don't like to go in there. But, uh...
Oh, gosh. No, it's just... weird.
It's just creepy.
It's like an addition to the,
the back of the house behind the kitchen,
and it's always dirty.
Okay. Alright.
We, we can talk back there
if, if you're fine going back there.
- It's, uh... (clears throat) - Yeah, we can go back there.
Okay. Alright. There's a, uh, there's a back room there
- that we can... - Taylor: Kind of like the laundry?
Garrick: ...that she'd like to talk in.
Taylor: Yeah, that'll work.
It's too hot out here for...
Oh, well, I can make a pitstop
and take out the AC if you need that.
Well, there's, they've gotta do their thing
for a minute, and then we can go in.
We can go in.
Oh, get the password.
Oh, what's the, uh, how do you open this?
- Uh-- - Just hang on.
Joe: What kind is it? An iPhone?
(Garrick clears throat)
How long you lived in Augusta?
Uh... I was out here
October 2015 to April 2016,
um, TDY, and then moved back this past December.
Garrick: What do-- (chuckles) what do you think of it?
Well, I willingly moved back here as a civilian,
so I guess it must be alright.
Willingly. (chuckles)
You say that, you say that begrudgingly.
Yeah. I, I mean, originally, I--
My big plan is to deploy as a Pashto linguist
and be in Bagram for a bit.
But then they hired me out here for Farsi, so...
Wait, you're-you're Farsi and Pashto?
Farsi, Dari, Pashto.
Wow! That's...
(laughs) that's impressive.
I can barely, I-I'm barely able to speak English.
English is hard.
Hmm.
Uh, but yeah, I noticed that with--
(coughing, sniffling)
Especially here at Augusta,
it's, uh, it's great for families.
But, uh, single, it's, it's kind of tough.
Like, I can't imagine coming back.
Taylor: What's the, um...
Do you, uh, do you have a password or anything?
- No password. - How do we, how do we do it?
Show me how to do it or tell me how to do it.
Swipe that?
Uh, yeah.
Taylor: No security?
No security.
You don't have a password or anything that--
No password. Nothing. Just anytime it locks,
- you just press the side there... - Okay.
...until you see the circle and just slide up a bit.
Okay, so it...
(Taylor quietly muttering)
Did you already show her the warrant?
Garrick: Uh, no, I haven't.
I was going to. We're going to, we're going to sit down and show it to her.
(rustling)
Garrick: What made you get out of the Air Force?
I, I wanted to deploy.
I mean, I learned Pashto for a reason
and those opportunities aren't in the Air Force right now.
Mm. (chuckles)
You figure that with that language,
you could just raise your hand and they'd go,
- Right here! - "Yeah, go."
Yeah. No. Where I was in Maryland,
they only had one billet per year for Afghanistan,
and it was all always airborne.
Not even language.
So I imagine people are just crawling for it.
Yeah. And I don't have my airborne physical. So...
(dog barking)
Joe: Is your dog okay?
- Does it need anything? - She's fine.
- She? - Yeah, she's--
If you can tell we're all dog people.
(laughs)
Yeah, I can, I can tell.
Is she destructive at all
when she, when you leave her alone?
Yeah, she's just a nervous chewer.
Man: Whoa!
(man laughing)
(keyboard clacking)
Where do you CrossFit at?
Uh, I'm at SEC.
It used to be on, uh, Enterprise Court...
- Mm-hmm. - ...off of Bobby Jones,
and then we moved to Wheeler.
Uh, but my-my friend's reopening the Under Box.
Garrick: You, you going to go off?
Yeah. I'm just, I'm just waiting for her gym
to open to, to jump ship.
- (Taylor talking indistinctly) - (Joe laughing)
Garrick: I did it for, like, six months,
and I hurt myself.
- Oh. - Just every single day was just pain.
- Yeah. - So, I don't know.
I guess I'm just too old and broken.
Yeah, I always say that I, I don't do CrossFit,
- I do competitive powerlifting. - Garrick: Okay.
And then I do CrossFit when it's convenient.
Garrick: No. Uh-huh.
Taylor: What's your, uh... (chuckles)
Powerlifting?
What's your, y-your preference on?
What's your favorite stuff?
Oh, I'm just all upper body.
So, bench.
It's kind of sad. I tested my lifts this week
because I have a competition on June 24th,
and my max bench is 180, and then my max back squat--
I have a, I have a back injury,
so my max back squat is 195.
- But I don't-- - Still!
Still not shabby.
No, it should not be that close.
How'd you hurt your back?
Uh, doing power cleans.
My, uh, pelvis wasn't rotating,
so I separated that joint.
- Sounds painful. - Reality: Yeah.
I did, um, I was doing box jumps
and this hand just...
I was doing it by myself. It hit the box.
And, I-I mean, I thought I just fractured every bone
in the body, in the, in the hand.
And I went to, I had to go to the doctor to get the x-ray.
They said, "So how did you do this?" CrossFit.
Four times they asked me.
I said, "No, I didn't get in a fight. It was CrossFit."
(chuckles)
I, I, um, I thought I could see
the bone on my shin from that one.
Garrick: Wow. What was that?
Box jumps. Just missed the box.
That's a moment you really hope, did anybody see that?
(winces) I really hope nobody saw that.
So I do have to ask just
however this goes, and I don't want to make any assumptions,
but this is going to be a thing where, like,
I brought my phone into the building
and I don't see that phone for three weeks or...
- So, we'll go over the-- - So, we have a warrant for the phone.
Yeah, no, and I don't, I don't want to make
any assumptions or anything like that.
Just, uh...
I'm, I'm teaching yoga tomorrow,
and my phone has the music on it.
Okay.
I mean, there are... bigger problems in the world.
So I, I can make do, I guess.
Yeah. And, uh, we'll, we'll talk about that once we sit down.
Is there, uh, do you have just a few chairs?
Like, kitchen table chairs we can pull into that,
that back room or are we gonna be sitting on the floor?
Reality: No. Uh...
yeah, if you want to sit. I'm not too big on furniture.
(camera beeps)
(indistinct radio chatter)
(camera beeps, shutter clicks)
Would it be too much to ask if I can get
the cat on a leash and tied up?
Just, um...
I just don't want to be, like, asking someone in the FBI
to keep the front door closed if you guys are doing a search.
I don't see, I don't see an issue.
Uh, uh, where is the cat right now?
- In the bedroom. - Uh, on the bed.
In the bed.
- Okay. - Still in the bed?
Joe: Yeah, I think so.
(camera beeps, shutter clicks)
Taylor: Where... um, just safety's sake,
where are the, uh... there's your weapon and the--
The weapon, it's right by the little table
with the lamp right under the bed.
Your cat's under there.
He's under the bed, or she's under the bed.
Taylor: The AR is in the case in here?
Yes.
Where's the other gun?
Reality: It's behind it, more against the wall
in the black case.
Can you get your cat?
- Do you want to get your cat? - Joe: Can you...
Taylor: Do you want to get your cat?
Joe: Do you want to get your cat?
Just-- Get your cat.
(purrs softly)
Reality (on recording): Alright. She's good.
- Taylor: (sighs) Okay. - Garrick: Alright.
Taylor: Uh, you wanna go back here?
Garrick: Yeah, you can go ahead and go back in there.
(clattering)
(switch clicks)
(door closes)
(tense music playing)
(blinds rattle)
This room is dirty. I'm so sorry.
(blinds rattle)
Alrighty.
So, uh, again, my name is Justin.
You probably don't re-remember any idea of who I am.
So, Justin Garrick with the FBI.
Uh, this is Wally. He's my partner.
Um, so what I want to do is kind of explain
that, you know, we do have a search warrant.
Uh, you're welcome to see the warrant.
You're welcome to read the warrant.
And then explain a little bit about it.
Now, if you're willing to talk to me,
I'd like to kind of go through just how this started
and, you know, give your, your side of it.
We'll figure out what's going on here.
Does that sound, uh, sound good to you?
Okay.
Okay?
Yes.
Now I'm gonna take, uh...
(clears throat)
Right here.
I'm gonna take, uh, notes,
uh, just random basis.
You gotta take notes.
(Reality chuckles)
(Garrick clears throat)
Now, do you need water or anything?
Ar-are you thirsty?
You're what? If you need water, shout it out.
Uh... okay. I'll let you know. Thanks.
Are you thirsty?
Uh, not right now.
Okay. Alright.
Um, if you need to use the restroom,
any of that, let me know.
It's not a big deal. Okay?
Okay. So currently, you're employed
as a contract, uh, linguist
with Pluribus?
Yes.
I'm sorry, what languages you said?
Um, I-I heard...
Uh, Farsi, Dari, Pashto.
Garrick: Okay.
(clears throat) Any other?
- No. - Garrick: (laughing) I'm kidding.
I think that's enough.
(clears throat) That's really impressive.
Uh, and you live here, uh, sorry, by yourself?
- Yes. - Garrick: Okay.
(pen scratching)
It's really hard without a table and chairs.
(clears throat)
- I-I'm so sorry. - It's...
You don't have to apol-- It's your house.
Um, if you do feel like, you know,
you want to sit or anything, we'll sit.
Okay? I mean, if you sit on the floor,
I'll sit on the floor, I don't care.
- Hmm? - Reality: Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, and I'm serious about that.
If you want to sit, please.
I'll, I'll sit down too.
Okay.
Um, so, again.
We have a warrant,
and it's... do you...
Would you like to see it?
- Yes, please. - Garrick: Okay.
That just gave us the authority to search
the residence, the car, and then you.
125 pounds. You guys flatter me.
Sorry, I have a sense of humor.
- That was on your driver's license. - Taylor: That's right.
Okay, well, I lied.
(both chuckle)
Don't we all?
Attachment "B" just explains the property
- that we're authorized to search for and seize. - (loud bang)
Any questions about any of that?
Um...
No.
Okay.
We'll just leave a copy of that for you.
Garrick: Yeah, we'll leave a copy.
♪ ♪
(camera beeping, shutter clicking)
Garrick: So, uh,
all this stems from a report that we received
that you had mishandled classified information.
Uh, my, uh, question is,
does that ring any bells to you whatsoever?
(camera beeps, shutter clicks)
(Reality sighs)
It-it does now. Um...
When I started working at White Law, I...
- Do you guys know PKI passwords? - Taylor: Mm-hmm.
So I had a printed-out email, and I put it in a folder.
I didn't have a desk yet, so I, I took it with me
and passed through security and went to Starbucks.
And when I came back, they searched through it.
And unfortunately,
the email I had printed out was classified,
and, uh, they, they filed a report for that.
Garrick: Okay. Alright.
And, uh, what's your work role there
at, at White Law?
Currently, I translate graphics documents, and, um...
- Yeah, that's all I do. - Garrick: Okay.
From Farsi to English.
So you're assigned to a specific section,
- I guess, or group? - Reality: Yes.
Uh, it's the Iranian Aerospace Forces Office.
Have you been assigned there your entire time there?
Reality: Yes, since February.
Okay. (clears throat)
Uh, is there any other issues
or anything you're aware of that might explain
why that report was generated?
Like, ah, maybe this, maybe that.
No.
No. Okay.
Um, so you currently hold Top Secret/SCI clearance?
Yes.
Garrick: How long have you had that?
Uh, I would say since January 2013.
- While you were in the Air Force? - Reality: Yes.
So you kept it through...
through the...
Did you...
I guess when you left the Air Force, you kept the...
When did you lea--
When did you process out of the Air Force?
Uh, I processed out of the Air Force,
um, December,
uh, December 14th, um, 2016.
And up until that time, I was looking for contracts
to try and get my clearance renewed.
So your, uh, clearance just kind of passed through?
It passed through. Yeah.
Okay. Alright.
Um, so, again, as far as you're aware,
you haven't committed any security violations
or anything you're aware of
other than this, this
PKI thing?
Other than the PKI thing, no.
I mean...
I-I do print out documents at work
because it's easier for me to translate them by hand.
- Taylor: Hmm. - Reality: But then I put them in the box,
and then I don't get it mixed up
with, like, my, my classified notes
because they, uh...
I use pretty paper.
So I don't take out white paper.
Mm. Got it.
An-and I know it sounds really dumb,
but it's just, uh, it's how I can do it now.
And after this stupid PKI thing, I was like,
no more white paper out of the building. (soft chuckle)
You, you said you printed out stuff.
Yeah, I printed out--
Garrick: Is there a, a...
why did that come to mind as far as security?
I guess
I'm, um, just trying to think about
actual paper.
Um, I can't imagine any other way
to get things out of the building, I guess.
I mean, I-I'm old fashioned, so thinking about that.
And (sighs) just with this PKI thing,
just making sure I don't accidentally have anything
in my lunch box or anything like--
- Taylor: Nothing got out of the building? - Nothing.
You didn't carry anything out of the building?
No. No. And I definitely let everything get searched all the time.
So I haven't had any other accidents.
(Taylor sighs)
Do you work on any other matters?
No.
Okay.
Have you ever inadvertently, either by accident
or, or intentionally or whatever,
uh, gone outside your need to know on items?
Outside my need to know on items?
Um...
I do from time to time
look at a website called My Online.
- It's, uh, drone feeds. - Garrick: Okay.
I used to work a drone mission, so it's all Afghan stuff.
But other than that, just, uh...
reading basic news articles on NSA Net.
But I've never accessed anything that's outside of--
Okay. Have you ever gone searching for stuff
that's not related to your, uh, your work role?
No.
Garrick: Okay.
You kind of already answered this.
But outside of the PKI, have you ever taken anything
outside of the, uh, uh, the NSA facility?
- No. - Garrick: No?
Uh, have you downloaded anything? Emailed anything out?
- No. - Garrick: No? Okay.
Have you ever discussed, uh, any classified material
with anybody who wouldn't have
the, uh, prior US government authorization?
Who wouldn't have the clearance or anything like that?
Who wouldn't have the clearance and the need to know?
No.
No? Okay.
Not many people ask about Iranian aerospace,
so, uh... I lucked out.
So you never discussed, uh, discussed work
or anything classified with anybody?
Uh-uh.
Taylor: How's the neighborhood?
I, I did not look at a map when I signed the lease.
But I am well armed.
- You seem to be. - (Reality chuckles)
What's your plans?
You gonna stay in the house
or you gonna move somewhere else or...
Di-did you sign a lease, I guess?
I signed a lease, and I would only break it
if I get a deployment.
- Yeah. - Mm-hmm.
Have you had any issues here since you moved here?
I did, yeah.
Garrick: What happened?
I was coming home from a concert in Atlanta and it was 3:00 a.m.,
and, uh, there was a, a guy standing on the street.
And I wanted to make sure that he didn't see me go
from like my car to my, my door.
And I thought I'd timed it out well.
But then I was standing at the sink getting water
and then someone starts knocking at the door and I was like--
(door opens)
- Do you have a toothpick? - Taylor: Huh?
(door slams)
Uh, it's, uh, 3:00 a.m.,
and, uh, my-my-my keys and my phone were by the door
'cause that's where I dropped them,
'cause I had to pee, so, uh,
very glad to have a, a Glock Nine in the back.
Garrick: Oh, yeah.
Did not sleep.
- (Garrick laughing) - Taylor: I'm sure.
Anything other than that?
Other than that? Um...
(Garrick coughs and sniffles)
There's this...
(chuckles) People always ask if you want your lawn done.
And, uh, someone came and mowed my lawn
while I was in Belize last week,
so, uh, not really cool with that.
- I imagine not. - Yeah.
They're probably gonna come by,
knock on the door, and ask for compensation.
Reality: Yeah. (laughs)
I mean, if it's the same guy
I paid last time,
he's like this little old man,
like, in his 80s, so I won't really be mad.
- But-- - When, uh,
when did you go to Belize?
I left on Saturday morning and flew back
Monday morning, uh,
last weekend.
That was a quick trip to Belize.
(Reality chuckles)
It was a quick trip.
Taylor: What you go down there for?
I wanted to see the Mayan pyramids.
Taylor: Okay.
Reality: (chuckles) So, yeah.
Taylor: That's pretty cool.
Reality: I-I didn't have any leave,
so I was tired of waiting for the stars to align.
- So I just said... - Taylor: Sure.
...got three days, let's do it.
- Taylor: That's cool. - Garrick: Fair enough.
Spur of the moment, that's pretty cool.
Did you go down there by yourself or...
Yeah, by myself.
Garrick: Okay. Did you
do any tours or anything down there?
I did.
Um, I...
The, the first day, I went on, like,
a Altun Ha tour.
Uh... that was one of the first sites.
And then the second day, we did, um,
uh, we took a boat on a river
down to the Lamanai pyramids.
And then we came back and...
Yeah.
- Okay. - Mm-hmm.
Saw a bunch of monkeys.
So you're positive you've never printed anything out
that was outside of your work role?
(sighs)
Uh, I'm trying to think.
Um...
uh...
because there's, um, there's,
there's NSA Pulse,
and, uh, from time to time, I, I do print out articles
from that and use as scratch paper.
Uh, th-that sounds really dumb.
Uh, (laughs) now that I'm thinking about it,
the things that I, I did were r-r-r-really dumb, uh.
But then, I always threw it out in the burn bin.
Garrick: Okay.
What kind of articles from Pulse do you pull out?
- (keyboard clacking) - (dog barking)
Reality: Uh, usually reference material about, like...
(beeping)
...uh, just making sure, like, so many references
that I keep having to re-look up,
so that's probably a fraud, waste, and abuse right there.
Taylor: We're not worried about fraud, waste, and abuse.
Okay.
No.
I use a lot of papers,
but nothing outside of Iranian stuff or anything
other than that, and never outside of the building.
Okay.
Reality,
what if I said that I have the information
to suggest that you did print out stuff
that was outside of that scope?
I mean, I would...
I would try to remember.
Garrick: Okay.
What if I said
that you printed out information
related to, uh, reports on--
(distortion)
Taylor: Reality?
Uh... (chuckles)
we obviously know a lot more than,
than what we're telling you at this point.
And I think, I think you know a lot more
than what you're telling us at this point.
I don't want you to go down the wrong road.
I think you need to, to stop
and think about what you're saying
and what you're doing.
I think it-it-it's an, an opportunity
to maybe tell the truth.
Because t-telling a,
telling a lie to an FBI agent
is not going to be the right thing.
Okay?
Uh, you know, uh, again,
we're here voluntarily.
You're talking voluntarily.
I'm not asking you, forcing you to do anything
but think.
That-that-that's what I'm asking you to do is think.
So...
think about what he just asked you
and let, you know...
There's one I, uh, printed out
because I wanted to read it.
Can you remember what day that was?
I might mess up the dates, but, um...
late, late March, early, uh...
- early April. - Taylor: And what was it?
It was an NSA Pulse article about--
(distortion)
- Garrick: Okay. - And, uh...
I did print that one out.
Garrick: Okay.
Why... (clears throat)
Why did you print that one out?
Um, because I wanted to read it. (scoffs)
Uh, the way I, I downloaded it, it was hard to read,
so, um...
uh, just,
it looked like a, a piece of history, you know?
And I, I wanted it on my desk for, like, a day.
Did you, uh... H-how did you find it?
Uh, so if you go on Pulse,
there's a...
uh, the top right, they have a tab
that says "articles," and I, I scroll through those.
(stammers) Uh...
I don't know if you guys saw the one
about the miniature ponies, but...
- We missed that one. - Reality: Yeah.
No, that was,
uh, that was number one for, like, a year,
so obviously I go to check to see
if there's any other gems.
And then there was, there was that one,
and I saw it on the news and I was just like,
yeah, I, uh, I wanted to read it.
So, yeah.
- Okay. - What did you do with the article?
I kept it on my desk for, like, three days.
(heavy breathing)
I'm going to be honest.
I only read, like, half of it.
It was the stupidest thing ever.
Uh, and then, and then I burned bagged it
in the box with the slat, uh, next to the fridge.
Taylor: Okay. Uh, did you print out any other articles?
No, no, I just, just, only the one.
Garrick: Okay.
Talking around it.
You're pretty sure it was late April, early March.
Think about, uh, try to remember, like,
details in your personal life.
I know! I-I'm trying. I d-- I don't...
I don't, I don't remember.
Um, I got in a fight
with the boyfriend that week.
God, when did I break up with him? I-I don't remember.
God, I'm, I'm really blanking on what week,
what the, what the weekend was like before that.
- I-I'm so sorry. - Garrick: It's okay.
Uh, I'm trying. God.
Yeah. Mid-, mid-April is all I'm thinking.
Garrick: Okay. Alright.
What if I tell you that I know
that you searched for and printed out a document
on the ninth of May?
The ninth of May?
Uh, let me see.
The CrossFit competition was on the 12th.
God, was it really that late? Um...
I-I-I mean, I can't argue that.
If-if you know, you know, I mean, obviously you know.
- I mean, I-I just, I can't imagine. - Okay, uh...
I mean, I guess we're already June already.
It's, it's been a really bad month for me.
Taylor: Do you remember what you did
to get to that article?
Other than seeing it on the,
on the front page or linking it--
Uh, do you remember what search terms
you might have put in?
(sighs)
Probably-- (distortion)
I'm not very sophisticated.
Okay. So...
you did print out a document,
uh, an intelligence report.
Y-you do recall that?
Yeah, I do remember now. Yeah.
Garrick: Okay. What did you do with that report?
I kept it on my desk for three days,
and, um, I thought it was interesting and I would read it.
And then I said, no, I sh-- I should not have this on my desk.
And so I put it in the burn bag.
Where's the burn bag?
Reality: Okay, uh,
it's in the, uh, break room.
Uh, it's the white box with the little slat on it,
one over from the fridge.
Garrick: So you just slide it in there and--
- And it's taken care of? - Yeah.
Okay, Reality...
are you sure that's what you did with it?
Yes.
Garrick: You're positive?
- Yes. - Taylor: You didn't take it out of the building?
No.
Garrick: You didn't take it out of the building
and give it to anybody?
- No. - Garrick: You didn't send it?
- No. - Taylor: You didn't send it to anyone?
No.
Garrick: Reality, can you guess how many people
might have printed out that article?
Reality: No.
It's not many. (chuckles)
That article has made it outside of NSA.
Okay? Obviously, because we're here.
And the most likely candidate
by far and away is you.
So now,
I-I-I don't think--
I don't think you're a, you know,
a, a big bad master spy or anything.
Okay? I don't. I don't think that.
I think that I've looked at the evidence,
and it's compelling.
Now, I'm not sure why you did it,
and I'm curious as to that,
but I think
you might have been angry over everything
that's going on politics-wise.
Because you can't turn on the...
you can't turn on the TV without getting pissed off.
Or at least I can't.
I think you might have just made a mistake.
Now, why I'm here and why I want to talk to you
is to figure out the why behind this.
Okay?
So... I ask you again.
Did you take it out and send it?
I... I didn't.
I-I-I put it in the burn bag.
I mean, I'm trying to deploy.
I'm not trying to be a whistleblower. That's crazy.
Garrick: So how would you think that a document would end up getting out?
Uh, I mean...
I, I mean...
Let's be honest, there's,
there's little to no security on the documents.
- I mean, nobody pats you down. - Garrick: Mm-hmm.
We talk about it all the time at work, like,
"Oh, you have to show our lunch.
Oh, you eat so healthy,"
like every day, all the time.
And people just, they...
I mean, we, we have a building full of geniuses, right?
And, I mean, I guess I'm just...
I'm, I'm, I'm talking and I'm nervous,
but I-I didn't, I didn't do anything with it.
I mean, I-I'm trying to go somewhere else.
- I'm trying to increase my clearance. - Garrick: Okay.
I mean, I-- and I know it was sensitive
and I thought it would be cool to have
on my desk for a couple days.
Okay. But do you remember, you said you remember
putting it in the, in the, the burn bag.
- Reality: Yeah. - Just sliding it in there.
Okay. (clears throat)
I remember that. Folded in half.
Folded in half?
Yeah. Yeah, um...
Because it didn't...
Yeah, uh, folded in half.
What if I tell you that that document
folded in half
made its way outside of NSA?
- I, I don't, I don't-- - Garrick: Made its way out
in an envelope postmarked Augusta, Georgia.
See, things are starting to get a little specific.
- Yeah. - Garrick: Made its way to an online news source
that you subscribe to.
Getting really specific.
So I'm going to ask you again.
What is very, very...
very compelling...
I'd like to know the reason
because I, I-I don't think
you make a habit out of this at all.
At all.
I think you just... messed up.
Now, I'm not sure why you did it,
and I'd like to hear from you on that.
But the what and the how
would you agree... looks awfully bad?
It looks really bad. Yeah.
If you're angry about what's going on,
if there's anything that...
Look, you've had a good career.
You have.
If there's something that just pushed you
over the edge on this...
now is the perfect time.
This is a podium.
Taylor: You know,
like... like he said,
I, I don't think we're coming in here to say
you're some big, bad mastermind, prolific spy kind of thing.
I think what we both think is that maybe you made a mistake.
Maybe you weren't thinking for a minute.
Maybe you got angry, like he said.
I mean, th-that's what I'm hoping.
If th-that's the case,
then that makes us feel a little better
knowing we don't have a, a real serious problem here.
You know, that's something that concerns us, too.
That, that this isn't an, an ongoing problem.
But we need to figure it out.
And if it was a mistake...
let's deal with it.
(door opens)
Agent: Is this...
is this a room?
Agent 2: Is that a room?
(door closes)
So how'd you get it out of the office?
Folded in half in my pantyhose.
(tense music playing)
Garrick: Okay.
And what did you do with it?
(fluorescent lights buzzing)
I put it in an envelope and sent it to-- (distortion)
Taylor: Anybody specifically there?
I don't think I put a name. I just put--
Had you communicated with them prior to you doing that? With--
No, I wasn't trying to be a Snowden or anything.
Taylor: And that's what-- I don't think you were either.
I really don't.
But I, I, I think you made a mistake.
But... (stammers)
I don't think either one of us
think you were trying to be Snowden.
(echoing) No, it was, it was just the one document.
- And like you said, because... - Taylor: Right.
...I've had, um, a, a really hard time at work.
Uh, I've, I've, I've filed formal complaints
about them having Fox News on all the time
and, and, like, for God's sake, put Al-Jazeera on
or a slideshow of people's pets.
Like, I've tried everything to get that changed.
Taylor: It would probably be a good thing.
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter
which side you're watching,
they're all pretty bad.
- (softly) Yeah. - Taylor: But...
uh, I think the pets may be the way to go.
(rustling)
Reality: The pets would have been great.
Uhm...
but just having that every day and then--
(distortion)
Where'd you mail it from?
Uh, mailbox
on, uh, Baston Road.
Taylor: Okay.
It's, uh, it's, uh, the shopping center
with the bank and the Earth Fare gro-gro-grocery store.
Okay, I know where you're talking about.
At the intersection of Baston Road
and F-Fury's Ferry.
- Taylor: Fury's Ferry. Okay. - Garrick: Mm-hmm.
I never could say that right. Fur-Fury's Ferry.
Taylor: And it was just a mailbox sittin' out
in the middle of the parking lot?
Reality: Mm-hmm. Just a metal box, yeah.
- Okay. - Garrick: Okay.
Taylor: Do you remember what day it was?
(sighs) What day of the week was the ninth?
Let's see. Um...
Uh, we'll check.
Need some water or something?
I'd like some water once we figure out
what day of the week it was.
- Okay. - Taylor: Let's see.
I want to say it was, uh,
if I can figure out this crazy phone,
I want to say it was a Tuesday.
- Tuesday? - Taylor: Yeah.
Garrick: Is there something significant about the ninth
- in other ways? - No. Uh, it was,
it was just the first day I saw it, uh.
If it... if, if...
It might have been the 11th or the 12th
if, if I subbed yoga on the,
on the night of the 11th,
then, uh, the yoga studio is right there.
Taylor: So it would have been a Thursday or Friday?
- (whispers) Thursday or Friday. - Taylor: Okay.
What yoga studio?
Uh, it's called Oh Yeah Yoga.
So, you said maybe
you mailed it Thursday or Friday?
- Reality: Mm-hmm. - Okay.
How did you know to, uh, mail it to--
(distortion)
(tense music playing)
(scoffs, mutters)
(distortion)
Garrick: So you wanted to be able to publish it?
Yeah.
Taylor: Did you send it anywhere else?
- No. - Taylor: No?
No other publications
you've shown it to or given it to?
No. (sniffles)
Is there gonna be anything here
that we're gonna be surprised to find?
No, I, I never took the document out of my car.
Taylor: Is there anything on your phone or your computer?
On my, on my phone, you might,
I don't, I don't know if I deleted it,
but you guys are probably going to be able to see it anyway,
but there will be a screenshot of the address.
- Okay. - Taylor: Okay.
Uh, you mentioned you wanted some water?
Yeah.
- Yeah. Why don't we, uh... - No, I'll make it.
Uh, I'm just gonna get somebody out here.
(door opens)
Hey, can I, can I have somebody in here, please?
Uh, do you want a bottle of water?
Um...
Garrick: Do you have a filter in the fridge
or do you just want tap water or...
Ta-tap water.
There's, um, a, a mason jar glass
next to the sink.
Garrick: Can I get one person to stand here, please,
so I can go to the kitchen?
Joe: You guys, uh,
you're not going to fit in there anymore.
She's not going to fit in there anymore.
Taylor: She's still under the bed?
- Joe: Huh? - Taylor: The cat.
Is the cat still under the bed?
She's a big girl.
(laughs)
(laugh echoes)
Oh yeah, we-we're trying.
(echoing) Taylor: How old is she?
She's three years now.
But girl likes to eat.
(slow, distorted) Joe: Oh yeah.
Reality: She likes carbs.
She's got a little slim fit on her.
Mm-hmm.
She came out, I was like...
Both: Whoa!
(Joe laughs)
Yeah. (laughs)
She'll snatch bread right out of my mouth.
- Like... - Taylor: Wow.
...girl, you do not need those.
(Taylor and Joe laughing)
(raucous laughter)
(laughter echoes)
(Garrick clears throat)
(audio clears)
Water.
Thanks.
(Garrick sighs)
So other than the screenshot on the phone,
there shouldn't be anything else?
And there should be nothing on the laptop?
Nothing on the laptop.
I do have a Tor browser.
Which probably looks bad, but...
Okay.
What do you... use, what do you use the Tor browser for?
Garrick: Have you had any contact with anyone from--
(distortion)
(echoes) The Intercept?
Garrick: Have you tried to reach out?
Like you said, I saw the article,
and I couldn't believe it wasn't a thing.
It made you mad.
It made me very mad.
Man: (on screen) ...that Russian interference helped him win the election.
Senior national correspondent--
Reality: "Russia/Cybersecurity:
"Main Intelligence Directorate Cyber Actors,
"redacted, Target U.S. Companies
"and Local U.S. Government Officials
"Using Voter Registration-Themed Emails,
"Spoof Election-Related Products and Services,
"Research Absentee Ballot Email Addresses;
August to November 2016."
Man (on TV): If anybody could show me that the Russians
got into any voting machine anywhere in America and--
- They did-- that-- nobody-- - That's how you hack an election, Bill.
No, no. That's one way you can hack an election. No one is--
Reality: "Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate actors
"redacted, executed cyber espionage operations
"against a named U.S. company in August 2016,
"evidently to obtain information
"on elections-related software and hardware solutions
"according to information that became available
in April 2017."
- What kind of attack-- - You're jumping to conclusions.
No, there is no jump.
- I'm simply telling you-- - Of course, you are.
There's not one shred of evidence
- tying Russians to a hacking-- - Okay.
Reality: "Given the content of the malicious email,
"it was likely that the threat actor
"was targeting officials involved in the management
"of voter registration systems.
"It is unknown whether the aforementioned
"spear-phishing deployment successfully compromised
"the intended victims, and what potential data
could have been accessed by the cyber actor."
(modem beeping, whirring)
Reality: It was right there.
And I just, I didn't care about myself at that point.
Garrick: When did you realize the technical capabilities
of that article?
Reality: Sources and methods.
Garrick: Sources and methods
are valuable to adversaries.
Reality: Yeah.
Garrick: Okay.
With that in mind,
why did you make the decision to send it anyway?
Reality: Honestly, I just figured that whatever we were using
had already been compromised.
And that this report would just be like
one drop in a bucket.
(Garrick coughs)
(sniffles)
Garrick: Is there anything else you want to tell me?
Say?
Talk about why?
I was just...
I just thought that... that week
there was just too much to sit back and watch it and think,
why do I have this job if I'm going to be helpless?
It was just...
I'm sorry.
It was just the final straw.
Was there something that just
just... did it. (snaps fingers)
Because you don't seem the type to do this.
- I-I-I'm not. - Garrick: I-I-I believe in it. I wanna believe in it.
I'm not. I--
I want to go out With our Special Forces.
I mean, that's why I got out of the Air Force.
I-I-I...
It's wh-- it's why I'm here in Augusta.
I-I was trying to get my clearance back
so I could get deployments.
I-- It just was at a time I wasn't applying for deployments. I...
I had seven, eight months left of a job
that didn't mean anything to me
because it's, it's Iran, and I'm a Pashto linguist.
Like, what am I doing translating Farsi?
I-I just...
I felt hopeless.
And seeing that information
be contested back and forth,
back and forth in the public domain
with everything else that just keeps getting released
and everything that keeps getting leaked, like,
why can't this get out there?
Why can't this be public?
Were you surprised to see us today?
Yeah. Actually, I thought
you were here to ask about the house
because it's still for lease online.
Because you didn't seem surprised when we pulled up.
Oh, God. That's just because I have a resting bitch face.
You guys turn around and, and "FBI."
I was like, what is going on, you know?
And then you showed your badge right up and, uh...
I submitted my security packet yesterday
for my clearance on E-QIP.
So I thought
that was what it's for.
I was like, why are you guys questioning me
for my own clearance?
- But... - Garrick: Okay.
That's, that's not going to happen.
Garrick: Uh...
Taylor: Anything else you can think of?
Garrick: What we have to do is we have to do the search.
Of course.
Uh, you said-- (coughs)
(hacking cough)
Sorry, I have a sinus infection,
- so I sound... - It's okay?
Garrick: I sound awful. (clears throat)
Well, this is the best room to be in it with.
(Garrick chuckles)
Taylor: Do you remember the site from memory?
Uh, if you scroll down to the bottom, there's contact,
but it-it's not as obvious as you think
because it's closer.
Mm-hmm.
How long did it take you to find it?
About probably three minutes of scrolling,
which felt like an eternity sitting in my car.
- Taylor: Mm-hmm. - Garrick: Okay.
- Yeah. - Garrick: Uh...
you said the documents stayed in your car.
- Yeah. - Garrick: Where did you get the envelope?
The box of envelopes is...
it's on the back seat in the car
behind the driver's seat. I--
I had a bunch of forms I had to mail out last December,
so it's been in my car since December.
Garrick: Okay.
And the stamps?
Stamps.
I think I have about one or two left in there,
uh, but I-I keep stamps in the glove box
in case I have to mail anything out,
like bills and stuff.
Garrick: Okay. In, in your glove box?
In the glove box, yeah.
Garrick: Alright. Uh, I'm trying to think if I have anything else.
Uh, the search, the, the guys will continue the search.
(voice fading) Search the vehicle and the house,
and they'll photograph everything.
Um, you, uh, the search team leader,
uh, is gonna sit down with you and go through things...
(voice inaudible)
(audio muffled) My passport...
(collar jingles)
Garrick: Do you have, uh, any questions for me?
Reality: So many, um.
This sounds really bad.
Am I going to jail tonight?
Garrick: I don't know how to answer that yet.
- Okay. - Taylor: What was the question?
- Uh, if she's going to jail tonight. - Oh.
Said I don't have the answer to that quite yet.
Of course, the, the search is still going on, uh.
In the case that...
I don't have memorized...
The woman, her name is Cathy.
She works at the Augusta Humane Society.
- Taylor: Okay. - She can come and pick up the dog in the case that
I-I-I-I'm not here tonight.
- Taylor: Well, let's don't... - Garrick: Okay.
It's just...
Taylor: Let's don't put the cart
before the horse right now.
Okay.
Taylor: Okay?
- That's just, um... - Taylor: I understand.
...my only concern is getting her
and then maybe one more phone call to get the cat covered.
Taylor: We'll, we'll figure that out.
If, if it comes to that,
we'll, we'll figure that out.
Garrick: And I don't have the answer to that yet. And I'm going to...
We'll, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Okay?
Okay.
Garrick: Uh, what else?
(indistinct radio chatter)
(toilet flushes)
Taylor: You turn it off?
Garrick: It's still recording.
(door opens)
Man (on radio): Copy.
Would you like to sit down somewhere?
- I'm fine. - You're fine?
Yeah.
(agents chattering indistinctly)
(barking)
Garrick: Reality.
(dog whining)
(handcuffs clicking)
♪ ♪
(dog whining)
Automated voice: Hello. This is a prepaid collect call
from an inmate at Lincoln County Jail
in Lincolnton, Georgia.
This call is subject to recording and monitoring.
- To accept charges, press one. - (keypad beeps)
Reality: As soon as Mom and Gary get to Georgia,
they're going to pick up Mina at least,
and Mickey will stay back with the shelter,
but they're safe in the house.
Everyone was really worried about them when they searched my house.
Bunch of dog people.
Yeah. I mean, that was the one thing, like,
when the FBI was interrogating me,
they were just like,
look, we have everything. We're just...
we just want to know why.
You know what I mean?
They didn't care about anything else.
They were just straight-up curious to know why.
They say Reality Winner has two faces.
One an Air Force veteran,
a loving daughter, and a yoga instructor.
The other, a person who had taken a keen interest
in the Middle East with suspicious motives.
When asked by the FBI,
Winner stated that she knew the intelligence report
revealed sources and methods
used by the U.S. intelligence agencies,
and she knew that compromising those sources and methods
could be valuable to our adversaries
and damage the United States.
She claimed to hate America.
When asked, "You don't really hate America, right?"
She responded, "I mean, yeah, I do.
It's literally the worst thing to happen on the planet."
She was the quintessential example
of an insider threat.
Obviously an intemperate political activist,
how did she get a security clearance?
We could ask the same question
about a lot of people working in government right now...
Reality: I keep telling myself to act more like I think
I did something wrong.
Woman: We are more concerned with the leaks
than we are with the fact that the Russians
attacked our democracy
and that the President's campaign
may have participated in it.
They didn't attack our democracy.
- They did. - That's a meaningful--
Man: If you look at this, this is sort of like
The Intercept knowingly or unknowingly
outed their own source.
I mean, it made no sense.
It's like, is it that, are you that--
Sloppy? Irresponsible? What is it?
Both.
As a journalist, we count on people
to leak us information that's vital
for our democracy to function.
Knowing what happened with the Russian hack
was a very important thing.
Now, she did violate the rules of her employment.
But this penalty that she's gotten, five years,
is exceedingly long, one of the longest penalties.
And it's obviously there to create
a, you know, a chilling effect.
Right? So that other people don't do this
and k-- we stay in the dark.
Automated voice: You have one minute remaining on your call.
You have one minute left.
Reality: If you could just get
that message to Lane.
Woman: Yeah, I will.
Reality: Alright. I really appreciate it.
Woman: Yeah, of course. I'm just worried that--
Reality: Oh, and one more name.
Don Z. Last name starts with a Z.
- Woman: Okay. - Reality: Tell him I'm probably not gonna
talk to him again, but, um,
I'm doin' pushups like crazy and I'm going to miss him.
Just let him know that...
Garrick: Obviously been recording.
I'm going to...
- Taylor: What's up? - Garrick: Going to end the recording.
- Taylor: I think so. - Garrick: And stop the interview.
Taylor: I think so.
Garrick: So this is at, uh, five,
let's call it 5:17 p.m.,
ceasing recording on June third.
♪ ♪
(music fades)